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Category: Electrum Pieces (Page 122 of 156)

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More on Thieves Skills

March 15, 2011 /

One thing that has always bothered me about 2e thieves was a breakdown between the iconic D&D THIEF SKILLS and certain non-weapon proficiencies. I still think of ventriloquism and disguise as alternate thief skills, yet they have a different mechanic to determine success from climb walls or read languages. Odd.

I could, as a 1st level thief, have a 60% chance of creating a good disguise (assuming a 13 charisma), but less then 35% in doing most of the canonical thief skills, except climb walls.

One way to resolve it is to make several non-weapon proficiencies into thief skills. I like this approach in part because some of the non-weapon proficiencies had been used a theives' skills in previous editions. I also like it because it gives a thief more options. I can see an urban thief as quite different than and adventuring, dungeon-crawling thief. I could see both as quite different from a yazuka and assassin. You could start with a list of twelve skills starting with 1 point and 16 points to build with no more than 6 points going  to one skill.

However, once you make the thief skills and non-weapon proficiencies the same mechanic, it makes more sense for all the thief skills to become non-weapon proficiencies. This allows characters to have a narrow band of skills with better than a one in three chance of doing anything. This also ties into the kits idea, but that will come later in another post.

To preview a bit where all of this is going: Warriors will be differentiated by weapon proficiencies and specializations. Rogues will be differentiated by non-weapon proficiencies. Wizards will be differentiated by schools of magic. Priests will be differentiated by domains. Psionicists will be differentiated by disciplines. Certain non-weapon proficiencies can add flavor to any character, but I want to get rid of certain silliness in the various Handbooks. (An amazon kit for every class. Ugh.)

Back to the topic. To re-skin the thief skills into non-weapon proficiencies:

Pick Pockets: DEX +0
Open Locks: DEX -1
Find/Remove Traps: WIS -2
Move Silently: DEX -1
Hide in Shadows: WIS -2
Detect Noise: WIS
Climb Walls: DEX +2
Read Languages: INT - 3

Next up, more on the kits.

More Thoughts of 2e Inspired Clone

March 13, 2011 /

I know I know. 2e? Really? Even Myth & Magic went 3e on everything.

Yet, here I am still thinking about it. I realized that the math from a previous post about my 2e ideas is more complicated than I think is fun. When my friends and I are playing at 4am, I am not thrilled about the commutative property of addition or its effects on making a roll. I want something simpler.

In re-reading my 2e Player's Handbook, I realize that I had proficiencies wrong. Proficiencies do not provide bonuses - they create penalties for using non-proficient weapons.

Weapon specialization, however, provides +1 to hit, +2 to damage and multiple attacks sooner than non-specialized fighters. For bows and crossbows, specialists can fire at point-blank range.

Proceeding forward, I'm basically going to assume the use of weapons proficiencies and specialization for fighters. Secondary skills and non-weapon proficiencies can be tacked on later.

Having said that, let's start with the example in the Player's Handbook and work around it.

Seventh level Fighter with 18/80 Strength and longsword + 1 attacking creature in chainmail AC 6. THAC0 is 14, the final target number is 14 - (2 + 1 + 6) or 5. So I need to roll a five or better to successful hit the creature. You could also think of this as an 80% chance of success.

I'm not afraid of subtraction by any means. What I am thinking about is explaining the math in a sentence. Right now, the successfully hit something you have to roll a d20 greater than the difference between your THAC0 and the sum of all your modifiers. Sounds bad, but it is easily mastered once you do it four or five times.

I'd rather have something easier to explain in English. For example, to successfully hit something you have to roll a d20 under the sum of your Base Attack Bonus and all your modifiers.

In fact, I'd like to go a step further and say that any success comes from rolling a d20 equal to or under the sum of your base ability and all your modifiers. That's where I started with the thieves' skills in the previous post. Here's what it looks like:

Our seventh level fighter with 18/80 Strength and longsword + 1 attacking creature in chainmail AC 6. With a Base Attack Score of 6, we add all of our modifiers to 6, including the opponent's Armor Class. This gives us 6 (Base) + 2 (Str) + 1 (Magic) + 6 (AC) to total 15. Rolling 15 or under on a d20 has an 80% chance of being successful.

Let's take our thief trying to pick pockets:

Our first level thief lives in an urban area where picking pockets is a way to earn a living. When determining his thief's skill, he starts with 3 in Pick Pockets and adds the maximum of 6 to it. So, he has a Pick Pockets score of 9. To determine if he is successful, roll a s20 and get 9 or less.

This even applies to Non-Weapon Proficiencies. They are determined by primary attribute +/- and adjustment. Roll 1d20 under to determine success.

For example, anyone with the brewing proficiency would roll based on their Intelligence score. Our thief, will an INT of 14 and a brewing non-weapon proficiency would roll equal to or under 14 to brew a good beer.

That is just a look at having a universal mechanic. Next up, how to avoid the explosion of awful kits...

Rogues’ Skills on potential 2e clones

December 21, 2010 /

So, let's say you're doing a 2e clone. It's the last TSR system remaining to be cloned, so why not? I mean, you could start with TSR 1070, the Second Edition's version of the Red Box. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Back to Rogues/Thieves/Sneaky so-and-so's that get to do cool stuff.

Myth and Magic by New Haven Games has a mechanic for proficiencies that is addressed by a d20 roll. Basically, Roll over this number (24 - STAT +2) with a d20. For proficiencies that it all well and good. Yet there is only one option to improve with this system. Buy the proficiency again and you get (24 - STAT +4) as the target number. Tweaking this formula a bit, let's restate the Rogue's ability table.

Pick Pockets - 6

Open Locks - 5

Find/Remove Traps - 4

Move Silently - 5

Hide in Shadows - 4

Detect Noise - 6

Climb Walls - 15

Read Languages - 0

At First level, the Rogue gets twelve points to spread out across these skills as they see fit. It is recommended that no more than six are given to any one skill, but that will be up to the GM. No skill can be raised higher than 20. There will be a table to show how high DEX affects each skill. A minimum DEX of 16 is required to have any affect on skills. High WIS can provide bonuses to Read Languages. (I know, not INT.) Just use the Attribute Bonus, no table needed.

DEX 16 | +1 Open Locks

DEX 17 | +1 Pick Pockets, +2 Open Locks, +1 Move Silently, +1 Hide in Shadows

DEX 18 | +2 Pick Pockets, +3 Open Locks, +1 Find/Remove Traps, +2 Move Silently, +2 Hide in Shadows

Once the rogue sets up their focus of abilities, future success is determined by looking at their score and figuring that Rolling over 24 - SCORE will determine success.

Okay, that's not enough for you? How about one mechanic to rule them all. Here's COMBAT:

Roll Over on a d20: 24 - AC + Weapon Proficiency + Modifiers. Weapon Proficiencies are purchased in +2 increments, Warriors start with 4 Weapon proficiencies, purchases can be stacked. My 1st Level Warrior is proficient with the longsword X2, longbow, and short sword. He has a STR of 18/80 giving him +2 to hit. He is using a +1 longsword to attack a creature with an AC 5. All of this boils down to 24 - 5(AC) + 4(Proficiency) +2 (STR) + 1 (Sword) = 12

Roll 12 or better to hit. Why does a 1st level Warrior have a +1 Longsword? Relax, it's an example. I wanted to provide a good example. In a real campaign, odds are VERY low that a 1st level Warrior would have a +1 weapon. If you do the math, a 1st level Warrior with a double weapon proficiency will calculate to a THAC0 of 20, THAC1 of 19, etc. Mages, with only one weapon proficiency, still calculate to a THAC0 of 20, THAC1 of 20, THAC2 of 20, THAC3 of 19 at 1st level.

So does that work for a simplified (as much as Second Edition was simple) mechanic to convert 2e stuff?

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